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Darshan

Hey everyone, welcome to the DarshanTalks podcast. I'm your host Darshan Kulkarni. It's my mission to help patients trust the products they depend on. As you know by now I'm an attorney. I'm a pharmacist and I advise companies with FDA regulated products. So if you ever think about drones a wonder about medical devices, you consider cannabis you obsess over pharmacy. This is the podcast for you. I would appreciate it if you would actually leave a comment subscribe, it lets me know that you're listening. It tells me that this these podcasts that we do are interesting to people. So if you have questions, feel free to reach out to me on twitter or just go to our website at DarshanTalks calm. today's podcast is with our frequent guests. The president of whistle innovations, we referred to her as the legend we refer to but but she is our guest today Robin witsel. Hey Robin, how are you?

Robin

Hey, Darshan How you doing?

Darshan

I have been good apparently not as good as you because someone's just coming back from a wonderful vacation so first of all, tell us why you had a vacation. And yes,

Robin

so the vacation was actually a surprise my husband and I are celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary Yeah, I mean right it's it's it went by so fast, it goes by in a blink. So we decided or all of it, we decided to return to St. Croix which is where we got married 20 years ago so that was really nice. And um, you know, we did we did this stuff like we we went snorkeling and we played golf, which is something we do maybe once a year so we're truly truly terrible and and have a good laugh. It's a lot of fun. But um, but yeah, anyway and it was interesting. With St. Croix you have to provide either a negative COVID test or proof of the antibodies or to enter that for the Virgin Islands. So it's it's really interesting kind of that exactly the before times, but how so many regions are trying to get back on track so

Darshan

I imagine for a Island destination that's based its entire economy on tourism. This must be a nightmare. How did the How did the islanders treat you like were they really welcome? Or was it please stay away?

Robin

No, no, it was everyone was really lovely. I mean, it's a thing cry is a beautiful island and the it's a us in the US virgins. So it's a US territory and and the locals It seems that they were just trying to adapt to what the rules are now right? So even if you don't have to wear a mask, if you're fully vaccinated, they want masks or you know, like the whatever the rules are now, and I think they're like everyone else have been pivoting. You know, what, what do they do? How do they keep their businesses afloat? How do they attract the folks that are visiting shockingly, though, it was really, like the plane was full. People were ready to go, to go to the islands to go be, you know, entering a new time. I think I think people are kind of tired of, yes, I think people are kind of tired of this. They're tired of. And I guess, I mean, that just many ways just shows how lucky we are that this is where we are as a country, and I know other countries aren't there yet. So um, so anyway,

Darshan

it's interesting to me, though, that you talk about that, because one of the things people are talking about in the news is Japan, and they're talking about the Olympics there. Oh, yeah. And, and how they're going really just don't have the Olympics right now here. And we'd really rather not, while the Olympics are going, No, we're gonna have it here, because we've been planning for this for a lot of years. And a lot of money has gone into this. So. So to me, to me that the difference, I wonder if is that Japan's economy obviously doesn't depend on tourism as much as say, the islands does. So I wonder if that's one of the distinctions, which I think is

Robin

something else to consider though, is Japan did a very early lockdown on the pandemic. So they didn't have nearly kind of the, the death rate here and the rate, the occurrence rate here, right. So they also don't have nearly the vaccination rate. So the vaccination rate in Japan is pretty low. So I can see why this introduces a great risk to their country because they didn't have sort of the incentive for everybody getting vaccinated whereas in Virgin Islands they were even talking about people would travel they're basically vaccination tourists to try to get vaccinated. Um, yeah, it was a we had some really interesting conversations with people about and and the thing the Christians, everybody Yeah. Yeah, everyone talks about that everyone's vaccinated and that everyone's on board and it's it very much is kind of that concept of being in something together like they are very serious about vaccination and, and and again, maybe to your point that helps her economy reopen. But also I think they understand that how fragile their healthcare system is. And they are doing their part in that way.

Darshan

So I find it interesting, though, you're talking about people coming there for vaccinations. But I wonder I remember this during COVID. And I'm sure you do as well. And I used to COVID as if it's past tense, and it's not, right. But the idea that people were going on, and a lot of islands said, if you are willing to work here will like wave a bunch of different requirements, as long as you work remotely from these islands. And I wonder if a lot of that happened, did you get a sense for that at all? Or not? Not really,

Robin

not really. I mean, what the folks that we encounter talked about, kind of their level of the organization that went into these max fat mass vaccinations. And they it was, it's interesting, because, you know, it's Island time, you know, you could you could go to lunch, and it's two and a half hours later, you know, you might get you might get your sandwich, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, there's there's not a it's not it's not a culture of urgency. And yet, when I heard from actually two different people about getting vaccinated, they talked about how organized it was, and how regimented and how, you know, it was like military precision, and I was it was impressive. Definitely. And I think, to this commitment for everyone that they wanted to protect their fragile health care system, it felt like, again, this concept of being in it together, but I mean, these are the island countries. These are small islands, you know, where I bet, you know, a lot of people like I bet, you say, Oh, yeah, my friend Amy, and everyone's like, Oh, I know, Amy, you know, but I'm exaggerating, but you know, you get the feeling like yeah, so I think that's interesting.

Darshan

Like it's like a bigger version of chairs where everyone knows,

Robin

maybe, maybe

Darshan

so so let's ask a different version of your question. This was a milestone vacation for you. This was a milestone event in your life did you work

Robin

Um, so yeah, I mean, we My husband is just sort of an impromptu thing so and because it was so tough to get tickets we actually were there a week which is a lot of time it just kind of take off work. So yeah, buddy I tried to I tried to be mindful about how much I worked and it wasn't like I was on my phone all the time connected to work all the time. I tried to like have windows of time where it's like okay, I'll I'll check in here and I'll check in here. But yeah, I mean I think that's I think that's kind of part of modern life is like knowing how to pace those things.

Darshan

I think that's exactly right. I feel like especially when I worked as a pharmacist, one of the best parts of working as a pharmacist was you work from seven to 330 and then you're done no one's calling you going never hand off and you move on in industry working in the life sciences industry that is not the case at least in the jobs that I have done it's you're responsible for this project I want to know where you are what you're doing how far you're getting long and that's even more so when in your case you're actually running the company so I just didn't know I was I wrong in thinking that there is a for me at least there's never been a natural sort of Oh, we're now on vacation I don't pick up phone calls and my girlfriend's list just going back makes no sense at all. Why are you working but it's glad I'm glad to know that not just me.

Robin

I think I think for me cuz yeah cuz I am running the country company and country company and I didn't want to create a bottleneck that's that's just one of the one of the parts of the job like I guess I signed up but I think I think for at least I hope for the other wi RS I hope they do disconnect more. And and completely. You know, I hope they do and we try to have people kind of find a buddy so they can hand off a project and go and and disconnect and and even me like I played golf. Have we have I mentioned how bad I am and it was a blast. And there were times when we didn't have connectivity? Or where, even if I wanted to work, I'm not working. So I mean, I think I think there is that something important about recharging your batteries and not always being all work all the time.

Darshan

I 100% agree with you. I'm just curious, like how that that matching of work life versus non work life and what I'm referring to is, I was recently I said recently, I guess literally two years ago at this point.

Robin

Like, last year, yeah,

Darshan

yeah. Last year. But But I was on vacation. I was I was literally in Pennsylvania. And we had, I was just at a resort worked all day, we're going out. I was getting ready to leave Atlanta talking to someone. And I realized that I was pitching business to a guy who I met at the bar, and like, it's that just sounds so wrong.

Robin

Did you get a job?

Darshan

Actually, he did offer me asked if I wanted to buy in his donor franchise? Oh, oh, maybe I do. I do. Food law as well. So it's been interesting when I was helping with some concept, and he'd never heard of the concept trade dress. about that. And yeah, that was my point being work doesn't seem to leave my mind that can tell that's a good thing or bad thing, or that's just normal now. And, and and not just now. But forever. Like, do you? When was the last time you went a week without thinking about work?

Robin

Oh, my goodness. It's a tough question. I mean, I think I think it speaks so to our industry, because even when, even before I started, WI I worked at startup, I worked at a large pharmaceutical company before that, and I went to the CRM before that. And I'd say that there was never really kind of a time when I wasn't in some way kind of pulled in by my job, you know, word or assumes responsibilities like were pulled in. So maybe also it's that responsibility gene. Like, I don't want to let people down. So that might be part of it, too. But But um, I think though, there are, like I said, there are windows where it's not all work, there's windows where it's, you've got to go to a different place, mentally.

Darshan

I agree. But now we're now as we start getting from the before, times into today, I love using that term before times, by the way, that's that's a, that's a whistle comment. But I'm gonna go with it. So when you come from the before times, and you start moving towards today, you hear about employees, and you heard about contractors saying, I'm not going to work for a company, that doesn't give me my freedom. And on one hand, I love the concept of that where people are saying, I don't I don't want to report into work, I want to be responsible for the job, do the job and and sort of go down that path. But I also wonder if they know what they're asking for? In that, yes, for the last year, we've done this, but do you really want to live where you are available? 24? Seven?

Robin

Hmm. Well, if if we're talking about and maybe we are if we're talking about working from home? Yeah, that is a real and true concern. Yeah. And I would say anyone who works from home needs to take a moment, like us, that's my entire company. We are all remote. And we need to take a moment to think about where we put those boundaries. Because I think that's, I think that's where you you caught burnout. You know, if it's, if it's always the job, you're going to get burnt out, there's no way. And if I can take it back to medical writing, and probably to your legal practice, if you're burnt out, you're probably not doing your best work. So are you really bringing the value to patients that you want to bring? Yeah, you know, I, I have conversations with with some of our clients about that, because oftentimes as its companies go into a big, big submission. So right, they're going to write a new drug application, they're going to write a biological licensing application. And I say that because it's not like you're writing a book report, you know, you're pulling together all of these different elements of what you've spent potentially the last decade. Working on, you're pulling it all together, right? Yeah, there is this temptation to create a scenario that is a death march for everyone. I mean, it's, it's an overwhelming it, and I I try to advise our clients like Hey, there are ways to cross that finish line that aren't Not gonna kill you and all the people that you work for and is creating that death march really doing your patients any favors. Because what if what you're delivering is now not your best work, and you're not going to get an approval, you're going to improvable you know, you need to think about the consequences of those decisions are one of our ops managers that has the word planetfall. And I have completely, completely like, glommed on to that word and stolen it, though I will get like, trademark Stephanie, but you know, be be planful. Think about sort of the sequence of doing things and doing things in the right sequence. Think about how if you want to speed things up, there are times when you need to move a lot slower. Like thinking about your key messages, thinking about your strategy moves slowly there, and then yeah, you can move faster downstream. So I think I think that's a part of our industry that we probably need to call out. Because burnout does not does not allow you to do your best work.

Darshan

So I think that sounds great as a universal truth and agreement. Claiming that to a company with investors try explaining that to a company that's gone public and has it has its 10k rs 8k do in a few weeks, I imagine you've had more than your share of telling someone that I want to give you the best. And that may not be the fastest, but it's the best. How has that gone for you?

Robin

Well, I think there's there's a couple things there a lot, lots to unpack. Right. Okay. And I think it's fair to say, How do you know this is true? Right? I think it's a fair question to ask. But what I would say is that we set, we set out with the scenario that we'll get the project done, right? And then we talk about the things that will derail the projects, the risks, like, hey, these are the this is the risk kind of risk landscape. And they need to balance the risk landscape. Think about it like we've had where, for example, there's obviously something wrong with the data. Yep. You know, yeah, this is this is not the time to power through, this is the time to pause. Because when you deliver that SAS data set to the FDA, they're also going to look at those data. And they're if we're spotting it, of course they are, because they've got all of it. Right? We've got we've got a small portion of it. So I think there are times when the desire is to move really fast. But really, you could, there's a way to do that that's more structured and feasible. And then there's, at least inside of medical writing, I kind of have embraced this idea that more is less, less, less is better. Like if there's a desire to create something that reads more like a manuscript, but really, they're better off if they just tell the story. So simply, and let the data tell the story. This isn't a manuscript, there's another there's other opportunities to kind of build more context around the story in a bigger way. So

Darshan

so what I'm hearing you say is, well, what I'm hearing you saying is that you are you use these opportunities to educate your, your, your clients on how to do it better. However, what I didn't hear you say is how they receive it.

Robin

Ah, well, they so there's a variety of ways it's received. There are of course, the smaller companies who they want to go go, go go go and, you know, when you point out, you know, you can't actually have draft one before you actually have data. Like there's, there's these limitations, they're necessary limitations. And then oftentimes, it's like the person who's trying to do the project management hasn't actually performed that specific task. So when you just walk it backwards for them, like okay, if you have this many documents to review, and you have this number of reviewers, and the same reviewers are looking at the same documents, you can't have 100% overlap of that review window, or they're going to focus on one or the other, and one will be delayed, or one will get less attention. So I think sometimes it's a matter of educating them about how to even plan the process piece, like think about that end point. Okay, let's say you do want to submission here, you'd have to have data by here for it even to be feasible. And I think too, this is a place where they try to push their own people to you know, hey, work nights work weekends, I've heard about companies that have sequestered people, like check them into a hotel for three weeks and they're just gonna like, power on and I'm like, Well, okay, good luck with that. But really streamlining reviews, thinking about functional reviews, there's ways to get time, less time out of something, or get something done faster, and be smart. That would, that would be my best advice. And then there are plenty of companies that actually respond to this. And other companies we try to put we put those guardrails into the proposals like, Hey, this is the amount of time it takes, and a woman cannot nine woman 910 women cannot be pregnant for a month and have a baby, you need to have is that there are things that just take time and have a reasonable sequence.

Darshan

Yeah. So so let's, let's talk about putting your best foot forward. And this conversation that I just want to be clear, we're stepping into hornet's nest as we start talking. Okay, should be a hornet's nest it but it is because of the way the country is divided. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about how you bring your best version of yourself to work. And we talked about doing remote work, we talked about that in the context of sort of bringing our like, get having downtime. But now in terms of actually showing up, okay, this is this is this month is pride, awesome. LGBTQ employees that are that are coming up, they're showing up they're, they're being who they need to be, and and want to be an R. But but we've seen and not not only are we respecting them, but encouraging them. And there's, there's been this groundswell of your wealth around companies taking a rule and saying, We, your company is coming and saying, we really support this whole process, we really want you to be part of it. I'm not really picking on pride this moment, as much as I'm picking on just being authentically you. And whatever that means. And what I guess, I think I'm blanking on the company, but one of the companies basically came and said, We don't want any political talk within our company. We just don't want it because it's not going to, we think you should focus on work. And that's great. ocularly I suppose

Robin

I had that go. I

Darshan

think we had like something like, I'm making a numbers here, like 50 employees and 25 quit. Oh, my God was was crazy.

Robin

Oh, so what you're saying is that didn't go well? No, no, not

Darshan

not so much. Not so much. Not so much. But But when you're trying to develop a policy for a company like what's innovations? How are you going in and saying, I want? Do you draw a line of business? Do you draw a line at being authentically you? Do you draw a line that employee welfare? How do you sort of come up with something that says, This is what our ideology is as a company?

Robin

Ah, okay. You know, I don't I don't know. That's, I mean, it's, it's it? That's a great question. I think part of it is I I know where I personally stand, like Robin was how I know where I stand. Um, and I think there are certain places where we have to be authentic, or it doesn't, we don't make sense anymore. Like, you know, divesting Robin from what's elevations doesn't make sense. But there are other places where I can make choices about how to do that. So I'll give an example. There might be how I specifically feel about Pride Month, which, spoiler alert, I'm all about it. I feel like people should be able to bring their authentic selves to work. And I think what have you seen,

Darshan

you say people should be able to bring their authentic self to work? Are you saying that as Robin would sell the person or Robin witsel? President,

Robin

so I'm saying that as Robin will person, okay. And I probably would sit as Robin wensel. President too, but let me go on. Yeah, I wouldn't get on like, I'm not gonna go on Twitter, and just start making blanket statements about things. It's that's, again, maybe I'm stepping in a hornet's nest by saying that but i think i my Twitter account really is just mostly business like, and our pets. Take your dog to Work Day, orange cat day, maybe coffee day. I mean, we'll I'll call out some of that stuff. So it tends to be a little bit more vanilla. I think one of the exceptions is we did put out a corporate statement last year about some of the civil unrest that was going on, and the health inequities that are brought to light and I thought that And I did have a few people that expressed concern, like, they were just jumping on a bandwagon by saying something. Um, and I kind of had to listen to and weigh all of those concerns. And then basically went back to the leadership of the company and said, Okay, let's make a go and no decision here. And pretty much I was like, you know, we look at enough data to see what health disparities look like, we look at enough clinical trials to understand what health disparities look like. Um, and, you know, I'm very involved with a diversity Alliance for science. So I think, and I think, as our company, I think, has benefited from that relationship. So I think to not be willing to articulate that as a value seems off to me. So that was a place where we did. And if we are if we should be like reconsidering, like, to what degree do we say it's pride month? I think it's okay to say, yeah, it's pride month or, you know, I mean, but you're right, maybe I need like a more like specific policy on

Darshan

no's. I guess, when you're making that decision, what I'm hearing you say is you make the decision on a on a case by case basis. Is that fair? Probably, when you're making that decision, a case by case basis, do you have a certain company motto or company, I don't want to use their policy, but something that effectively a constitution of the company that you go back to when you look at and you go, this is what are the values of our company? Sure. Does this line up with the values of our company? Or do you go? What do we think about this leadership of the company? And let's get emotional, sort of where we are right now feel for? How do you make those decisions?

Robin

Um, that's a lot of unpack. So so there's, there's so there's there's a couple things, right? So there's, how much skin we have in that game? Right? There's how much of it that really is our even our remit? So I think I think being thoughtful about where you even open your mouth is important, right? So there are places where it's probably not our place to talk about something, or our we don't have the expertise, we might not know what we don't know. Right? So I think looking at something and saying, why is it important to us to to express something is, is is pretty, pretty sound way to look at things. And I think we go back to our mission, which is about supporting life science community with integrity. Now, are we are we living that mission? We have very clear values inside the company that have to do with things like family first, and getting the science right, and communicating those values? And then customer service? are we serving our customers? And if our customers, our patients, are we serving them appropriately? So I think, yeah, you have to align everything, I get that expression, your truenorth is like a maybe cliche at this point. But I think there is an there is a good a good opportunity to use those values as as your as your truenorth as knowing that you're going in the right direction. Wait, which I can jump off from that I had asked you about if you have books that you read, or things that you explore, to help you with making decisions and going in different direction. And our company has a book club, and we're reading this book called think again. And, and one of the points of the book is kind of having an I love that they call it a scientific mindset, like asking questions, testing hypotheses, how do you know what is true is true, right? And I think in a case of something like this, like having having a policy around a statement about pride, I think that's an opportunity to think like a scientist look at like, Well, why do you need to put out that statement? Why are you? Are you inserting yourself where you belong or don't belong, it gives you a chance to think and rethink.

Darshan

Let me challenge you on that. Okay. I'd be a terrible lawyer if I didn't.

Robin

But lawyer piece every time, every time.

Darshan

Know what you're talking about, should we insert ourselves in a place that maybe we don't have the expertise for? And I think that's a very valid thought process without a doubt. But some might argue that sometimes you're not standing up because you think that it's your place, but because you think it's unfair. For example, Okay, I'm sure. I'm fully unaware. Just to be very clear about this. I know nothing about the demographics in Alaska or Iowa. I'm assuming it's 99.999% white American people for argument's sake. But should they put out a policy or a statement around black lives matter? Or is that not their role? Or do you go this is this is what we believe is, is inherently fair, inherently a point of being who we are as a state. So I guess my in the same way, so I'm trying to translate that accompany you, I based on what I've seen, you have a pretty diverse company anyways, like you can't really argue in that point. But But my point being in that scenario, would you go? I, if you weren't as diverse as you were? Would the argument be? We're not appropriately positioned? We don't have the knowledge base to talk about black lives matter at all, or is it more and we understand health disparities, therefore, we will talk about health disparities. So is it more about what you talk about? Because of the expertise? Or is it should you stand up for inherent fairness, if you will? Does that make sense?

Robin

Maybe? The answer that doesn't make sense question. Um, yeah. Yeah, I think, again, I think there's, there's sort of the value statement around it, like where it's appropriate for you to insert yourself. I mean, not every great thought that wanders through Robin whistles head talking about myself, that person needs to be shared, right? So I could have, you know, Oh, I love this idea. And it's not necessarily the smartest way to go for the company. So and another example, I'm, I'm not LGBTQ, though, I would consider myself an ally. So do I

Darshan

know that's a great example? Yeah.

Robin

Do I get to insert? Like, my beliefs on other people? I know, because I know there are people for whom? That's they would they Oh, they're putting it out there because it's a marketing. Right? Like, it's good marketing. I'm, you know, oh, look at us. We're doing and I feel really troubled around that. Um, so. Yeah, I think I think it's, it's, it's asking yourself, why, like, what is what's the reason for inserting yourself in the conversation?

Darshan

So being mindful about where you are, and what you're saying? I love it. Let me you know, how we usually end this. So do you have any question for the audience based on what we've discussed?

Robin

Yeah. So I wanted your audience to chime in with some of the books they've read that have influenced them, or what they're reading now. That's interesting. Um, I think I don't add it in it might be science fiction. My husband, because we were on vacation, just finished a book that he read as a kid, he's like, wow, this book was really good. And I was even better than I remember it being and I thought, that's a cool thing to learn about something. And then it's a good opportunity to sort of intellectually engage in a place that might be adjacent to what you do, as opposed to exactly what you do. So I want to hear recommendations and advice, or thoughts around that.

Darshan

Okay, I always try to answer the first question myself, I'm gonna listen to audio books. I'm trying to see which audio book I was listening to. So give me one second.

Robin

I'm a big fan of audiobooks to like,

Darshan

I don't have the patience anymore to read on my own. Come on, what was I reading? Sorry, that would go. How to talk to anyone is big success in relationships.

Robin

How to talk to anyone?

Darshan

Yep. Right now,

Robin

what's the like the secondary thing, something to success?

Darshan

little tricks for big success.

Robin

little trick for big success. Okay. So what do you like about it? What does it teaching you?

Darshan

so far? It's teaching me that. I'm smiling, right? That's what it's told me so far. So turns out, the big point that we're making is don't smile at everyone. Oh, you go from smiling. And everyone to sort of smiling when they sort of make their point. People feel like that smile that is valued more and apparently that's true with according to the book more for women than For men, because when women naturally smile more, and the men naturally round more, and get taken seriously, allegedly,

Robin

Ah, no, I needed, just like more of a stern face.

Darshan

But see what you just did where you face and then your smile sort of keeps coming out. Then I made a point. That was a good point. I've been like that point. I was gotcha.

Robin

Ah, so wait, what you're saying is if I'm smiling at you, you don't know whether I'm agreeing with your point. Or if I just like you as a human being.

Darshan

There you go. Gotcha. All right. That's how far I've gotten so far. Okay. So that was the question for the audience. Here's a question. Do question questions for you. What was the best thing that happened to you? This week that started Diego? Yes.

Robin

So Monday was Memorial Day. Yeah. And that was the day my husband, I went golfing. And it was,

Darshan

that was such a highlight. Oh,

Robin

we were so bad. But I think I think part of 20 years is that this is a person that I spent a lot of time laughing. And, and we can laugh at ourselves and laugh at each other. And it's it's actually kind of awesome. And so. So that was really a highlight of my week. And I think I I'm always keen on being outside and in nature. And that was really it was a beautiful course and like, a love except for how truly terrible we play. But yeah, that would be my The highlight of my week.

Darshan

Okay. challenged you in the last week,

Robin

which challenged me last week. Well, that started also Monday, um,

Darshan

well, last week. Okay. Um,

Robin

so I would say what's challenging me now is, we're really busy, and trying to balance busy with, again, not getting burnt out, trying to keep keep, keep focused on how to be able to remain doing our best work. And that's critical. Yeah. I think to like medical writers in our responsibility gene, you have to think about some of the boundaries that we need to put in place, and how to communicate those boundaries successfully. So maybe that's one of your little tricks for big success, I need to hit you up on how to successfully communicate things like boundaries, things like this is what makes sense for you as a project, but also me as a human being. There you go.

Darshan

Um, I will do a quick summary. Today, we landed up talking about your 20th anniversary. We talked about working from vacation. We then talked a little bit about how do you manage expectations from clients, whether they're investors, public companies, non investors, and, and seeing sort of how much skin in the game they have and evaluating sort of helping them understand how far in your you are read we spoke a little bit about working from vacation, I think we sort of are working from vacation. We spoke on remote work was the next thing we spoke about. We talked a little bit about pride, and we talked a little bit about putting out statements and marketing from it. And when do you put out a statement? what's appropriate? We talked about your book club as well. We talked about how terrible you are in golfing. And we talked about St. Croix and its own experiences around managing tourists. Did I miss anything?

Robin

I don't think so. Okay,

Darshan

fair enough.

Robin

You did mention you're a lawyer.

Darshan

Nothing in this podcast should be construed as legal advice. It is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only. So those of you who are missing where can they find you, Robin?

Robin

Well, they can find me on Twitter at at Robin witsel. please grab me there. They also find me on LinkedIn. Though if they do find me on LinkedIn, please include a little note because people just randomly link to me and I usually just ignore it unless they tell me who they are. How they found me. So yeah, please do.

Darshan

And if you find if you need to find me, you can find me on DarshanTalks on Twitter or go to our website at DarshanTalks comm If you liked this podcast, please like leave a comment and subscribe. Thank you again, Robin. Bye, dude. I should answer one more thing before we hang up. I think the challenge me this week was trying to log into this podcast.

Robin

That was terrifying actually, because it was like just me like standing there. And I'm like, ah, am I in the right room? Am I really doing the podcast today? I was I had moments. I don't roll symphony of emotions. I gotta tell ya.

Darshan

More than next time we come on.

Robin

Sounds great. Take care. Bye.

Robin

This is the DarshanTalks podcast, regulatory guy, irregular podcast with host Darshan Kulkarni. You can find the show on twitter at DarshanTalks or the show's website at DarshanTalks.com

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