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Darshan

Hey everyone, welcome to darsan talks. I'm your host Darshan Kulkarni. It's my mission to help patients trust the products they depend on. today's podcast is actually going to be one of those, those discussions because they really speak to the issue of trust. And as our guest today will will talk about a minimum standard of excellence to help patients trust the products they depend on. As you may know, I'm an attorney, I'm a pharmacist, I advise companies with FDA regulated products. So if you think about drugs, wonder about medical devices, consider cannabis obsess over pharmacy. This is the podcast for you. So I do these video podcasts because there are a lot of fun, I find myself learning something new each time. So if you are listening to this, I'd love to hear from you. So please like leave a comment, please subscribe. You can find me on darsan cops on Twitter or just go to our website at DarshanTalks calm. But let's talk now about today's podcast. today's podcast is is with a stalwart in the medical science liaison field in the medical affairs field in general. So if you are a pharmacist going, I'm really tired of being in retail and I want to make a meaningful difference. I don't feel like I am in the role I'm in. If I'm in hospital, and I feel like I, I need a better career ladder. I'm an industry and I'm working on regulatory, but I really miss patients. This is a conversation that that maybe we need to start having. And, and this is this is sort of why I was excited when he agreed to be on the podcast. So So today's guest is the startup startup is the founder and CEO of a CMA and is an investor in various startups in the life sciences. Our guest today William Solomon, William. Well, good to have you on. Thank you for coming on.

William

Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, Darshan.

Darshan

We already have someone, Christine Naro, who's excited to be here. And she's excited about what we're going to talk about. And we haven't even started so there's that. So well, let's talk a little bit about let's start with the basics. We've discussed medical affairs a few different times on the on the podcast. And for people that don't know we'll start by throw some links in there so you can listen to them. And MSL is obviously critical role, but we've never actually focused on MSL. So let's talk start with the beginning. What are MSL? And why is it important that that role stay where it is and sort of be as become more important potentially?

William

That's a great question. So msls, ultimately are really today the face of the industry in terms of providing education, to the thought leaders in medicine. So think about them. And I think about them kind of doing two primary things is educating the community on the disease state on a lot of the in depth scientific information of a product or device, and also in helping the community generate new data and information to help inform prescribers as to how to best use a product or device. And in the last decade, the number of msls has skyrocketed. It's actually a growth of over 300%. And we see it all over not just the United States, but all over the world, more and more companies are seeing the value of msls. And, you know, I think part of that is really the demand that the health care providers have to have more in depth information for people that you know, they see as peers that are medically trained.

Darshan

So, I mean, that sounds great in principle, but why can't we just have to have sales reps do this.

William

So sales reps certainly carry a function, I think, you know, part of the problem is, you know, given your background, salespeople are incentivized by sales. And that can cause a conflict of interest. Number one, number two sales people, generally speaking, not all the time, but certainly, you know, exceptions, generally speaking, don't have that clinical training that clinical background or scientific background. So it's maybe more difficult for them to get into a lot of in depth information. And today, as we've moved into a lot more specialty biologics and more complex mechanisms of action, you really need to have individuals that have that in depth, scientific and clinical training.

Darshan

So So are you suggesting that as we continue, there is this for lack of a better term, one, two punch of sales reps and msls? But But do they need to be working in conjunction as you see it? Or do they need to have that Chinese wall that separates them? What do you think is the industry standard now or what should we be aiming for?

William

Well, the industry standard definitely in the US, I would say in in Europe is to have that wall, that firewall. between the two, you know, so we have, you know, you know, as you know, we have the board certification of medical affairs, and we have learners and over 75 countries, so we have a good kind of global view of what happens in medical affairs in the MSL space outside of the US and Europe. And it's not like that everywhere. Um, ideally this he should have, he should have that firewall. But again, it's not like that everywhere. And I think part of the problem is that outside of the US, many of the people that go into sales to begin with, unlike in America, they actually have a medical background. So you know, if you're in Dubai, or if you're in India, the people that are actually your medical representatives, many of them are pharmacists, many of them are PhDs, we see that. And you know, then there's another level who are the medical liaisons. And so the lines a little bit, you know, more blurred than it is maybe in the United States, but I do see that we should have a firewall. But I will say this might sound a little controversial, you know, what we're seeing is a significant decline in the number of reps in the country in general, not just again in the US. But outside of the US. I had a meeting yesterday with a woman who is in medical affairs in Turkey, and she was telling me that many of the big companies are replacing all the MSL, all the reps with msls,

Darshan

which really is annoying when you think about the CIA, I think was GlaxoSmithKline from 2012, if I remember so it's it's a little old at this point. But but that was actually one of the problems that wasn't it, where they were getting rid of the reps and telling msls you need to take on that responsibility, unfortunately, in that specific situation, and I believe GSK changed all of that in light of the CIA. But, but in light of that situation, one of the things that popped out was they msls were given sales territories. And, and that obviously became a huge problem. So obviously, speaking to the point you were making a few seconds ago, the whole point is having that Chinese wall and making sure that they're functioning and have different roles. So So how do you Oh, we already have a question for us. Before we go too far. Christine's already asking this question, how can a set a kind of research professional make a career pivot? What degree is required?

William

That's a great question. You've been answered that question now. Please. Yeah, that's a great question. Thanks, Kristine. So I think one of the things that's important is to arm yourself with information kind of understand the language and the knowledge of the world you're trying to go into. So I'm a big proponent of continued professional development. So whether it's you go out and get a, you know, a degree that focuses on the area you want to go in, presumably, if you're talking about medical affairs, you know, from my perspective, I'd highly recommend, obviously, the board certification in medical affairs, because it gives you that specialized knowledge that you need in credibility. Actually, it's interesting, we collect data on the people that get board certified who are not in industry, and about 90% of the time, those people land a role in the industry within three months. And I was talking to a leader today, who was the head of a top five pharma, he oversaw 1000s of people medical globally. And he was telling me, you know, if I get five candidates, and they're all the same, let's say that one has board certification or some kind of additional training, it shows me that they've gone above and beyond so that's always my recommendation, because it shows initiative, and you know, you're able to hit the ground running more quickly.

Darshan

So so that speaks to obviously the certification. But what is the base degree? you recommend someone for example, with a bachelor's degree realistically break into being an MSL? Do you generally see terminal degrees?

William

Yes. Yeah, you generally see terminal degrees, but there are certain folks that don't have a terminal degree, PhDs, for example, nurses, were, you know, they don't have that advanced degree people that have even Master's in pharmacy from other countries. And we do see them, you know, they break in, of course, the predominant is the MD PhD in the pharmacy.

Darshan

And that really brings up next question, right? So we've got this situation where we've got MDS PhDs form these. And do you see that? Because Do you see those degrees being the focus, because those are terminal degrees, and it's less of an issue with for example, the DOJ or the O RG after the fact you're going we're using scientists, what more do you want from them? Or is it because they're, they're qualified in in a more unique way, if you will,

William

I think it's a combination. So you know, if you go to our website, you'll see one of the people that endorses what we do is the current interim head of the FDA Jenna Woodcock, I know Janet pretty well. We've met a few times and spoken and for medical affairs. From the FDA perspective, the DOJ is perspective. They certainly recognize that there's difference, but they still have obviously, certain boundaries in place even for medical, right. I think from the pharma industries and certainly having again, that advanced degree, I think it gives people more access. Let's be honest, right? That you know, one of the biggest reasons why medical came about, you know, an increase so much in the late 90s, early 2000s was that that was the height of when you had tons and tons of reps right? It was Merck versus Pfizer, it was a Celebrex versus Vioxx. It was Zocor versus Lipitor, it was those days in the early 2000s, and 1000s of reps, you know, around the country. And so access is becoming limited, doctors began to minimize access to reps and one of the workarounds was really the medical liaison. And this is why what you said earlier about GSK was really important. Producers did the same thing when they got hit with the opioid issue. They they've kind of, you know, substituted with medical people. And this is why, and this is why I've been advocating so hard for having a separate credential for medical because it protects the integrity of what we do. It separates us from commercial. And it's I think it's so important.

Darshan

So it's interesting, you talk about that separation from commercial, because, as you use it use the analogy of the 1990s, where there was so many reps on the ground. But But I guess the question that came out of it is, my experience is that right now, at least what I and I, every so often will work with the pharmacist. But the idea is that your access gets removed, because healthcare professionals start saying, I don't trust and distrust sending people to me. So how do you work to help ensure that that trust remains in place and potentially get stronger between msls and pharmo?

William

So really the question so we actually did a survey of about 1200 key opinion leaders. And we asked them, you know, if Darshan or will was board certified in medical affairs wouldn't matter when it came to trust and credibility and competence. 87% of them said absolutely would matter. And I think the key is having something independent of the industry that says, yes, you are accredited and certified to do what you do you meet certain core standards, is you know, as a pharmacist, it's no different than you went to pharmacy school. But you can't go practice, what do you have to do, you have to get a license, because the state has make sure you meet certain requirements. And this is the same thing and arguably a medical affairs professional, and MSL, is doing work just as important their impact the patient lives, you know, on a macro scale level, but they are, you know, I was a medical director at a company where we, you know, I was heavily involved in designing the clinical trials, that would really impact patients lives and what they were exposed to, we really play a big role. So we need to have something that ensures that there's a uniform standard. And this is again, this is why I think it's so important. This is why we were invited back in March by United States Congress health subcommittee, I don't know if you know that we were invited back in March was led by Congressman Brad Guthrie from the great state of Kentucky. And we talked about this issue at length. We actually even had Tina can mazz, who is a dean at St. John's College of Pharmacy, and she was talking about how in pharmacy school, they're not necessarily preparing folks to do what we're doing an industry that came from someone who's you know, a leader in academia within pharmacy. So I think, you know, it's time we're in a new era today, we're in a new era. And I tell you something else, this is again, gonna sound controversial. But you have a lot of folks in medical affairs right now I'm saying, look, I was in medical affairs, 15 years, you log in with medical affairs, who've been around for 2025 years, kind of this old guard mentality. It's like, we don't we don't need that, you know, we don't need to have a separate credential. This is not important. And I have to say we have to step into the future. That's just that's like saying, you know, back in investment banking days when equity research and investment bankers could work side by side, I mean, then we had the fall, and then we had the separation, right? So why are we waiting for another opioid crisis? Another issue, you know, why don't we take charge and make a change now?

Darshan

It's funny you talk about as I'm trying to make sure we're gonna I'm gonna raise something even more controversial than what you just said. Because I'm curious what your take on it is, but I think you're, you're saying it without saying it. So I apologize. If I'm putting words in your mouth. But what at this moment? What you have is a certification. What you advocated for in the last few sentences is a licensing of medical affairs. Is that accurate? Did I miss miss here, Miss release?

William

So so you know, licensing the medical affairs would be would try to make a requirement, right? They level or? And that's not that's not something we're advocating for in terms of mandates, although I will tell you, I will tell you, many of the policymakers we've spoken to, including within the Congress, the US Congress, many of them would like to see that, okay. From the ACA perspective, we are not necessarily looking for that we're looking for folks to voluntarily adopt it, no different than, you know, how we adopt formal code. As you know, formal code is voluntary. It's not mandated. And I'm an advocate for that, right. We don't we, I think we do a lot of good things in the industry. And we should, as an industry go above and beyond, we don't want to mandate it on us. But that's not to say that we can control that, right. That's so so whether or not that happens that's necessarily within our control, ultimately, from a legislative perspective. But we do feel like as an industry, if we adopted it, it would certainly show policymakers, you know, what, our industry has gone above and beyond to do something to demonstrate that we have this independent accreditation that really separates us from sales and what they do. So so

Darshan

so thank you for clarifying. Because Because what I'm what I'm hearing you say is that that independence, and that self regulation will prevent, or at least address a lot of the concerns that lawmakers have the guys yeah, not be like it. pharma doesn't have the best reputation in the world? No, admittedly, oh, it helped us. Because we came in, we helped avoid, literally, to the extent we had a goal pandemic, it could have been a lot worse. But that information still needs to go out. And right now we're struggling with trust. So what you're saying is having that independent third party perspective, would help in addressing those issues of trust. But let me take that next step. Does it need to be MSL who have that problem? Who needs to be trusted? Or should we also have a similar take on sales reps?

William

It's a great question. I get that question a lot. From our perspective, the focus is on medical, because of what I said earlier, the you know, the average rep, their time with a physician is very, very short, I think it's one to two minutes, you might know better than me, in terms of the average time it's very, very short. The average time of MSL or, you know, a medical director with with a health care provider is about 45 minutes. So let's be honest, who's really making an impact in terms of informing decision making from a clinical step. But really, it's the medical people, it's not so much. sales reps. And we also know that once physicians graduate, the majority of their education comes from where it comes from education supported by the pharma industry. And the third thing I would say is the majority of research globally, over 65% is funded by hope, by private industry by the pharma industry. So, you know, we can't get around it, whether you agree or disagree. The pharma industry plays a massive role in helping to shape clinicians perspective, once they're out of medical school. And the who's at the forefront is medical affairs. And medical folks, because they're the ones that have the time with these physicians.

Darshan

So so that's interesting. You talked about the time with a physician, which I think is critical. I didn't know these numbers, one to two minutes versus 45 minutes, obviously, a huge difference between those two. But I guess my question is, you have armies of sales reps, so each of them getting one to two minutes, versus it's a medical affair, medical science liaison, specifically, getting into see a physician, once that trust comes in, you are a pharmacist, you are a PhD, you are an MD, I can trust you. I'll spend the time with you because you can answer questions I actually have actual questions about my question to you is, in that scenario, how do you get them past the gatekeeper? Because the gatekeeper is going to me You're just pharma. Right? You don't from the medical side? I'm talking from the healthcare practitioner who who's saying that I don't want to talk to pharma. They don't draw that distinction of medical science liaison. Yeah, so So how do you help people address that? Well,

William

one of the things I think that we've done is really get a lot more awareness around the value of board certification for medical and advocating for medical in the community. So we, we work with a lot of the hospitals and health systems, you know, so I think them being aware that medical really is different, and they're different because of this reason, because they understand it. Matter of fact, this is interesting little interesting data for you. 40% of the people that are board certified or MDS, are MDS, then the other 60% are mixed of form DS and PhDs. But the mu RT x u n ds. And I think it's because MDS get that they get that idea of, you need to have some type of board certification. It gives you a layer of credibility, you know, that layer of trust. And while I want to just go back to one thing that you said earlier, when you're talking about the trust in the industry, you're right. COVID helped a little bit, although there's still a lot of COVID, you know, vaccine hesitancy. But it's hard to imagine now 2019 at the end of 2019, the Gallup poll rated the industry, the pharma industry, the lowest of 25 Industries, in terms of trust by the American people. Do you look that up? So the Gallup poll in 2019, showed that and, you know, a lot of that was because of the opioid crisis. And let's be honest, part of that was because there were companies, you know, that we will mention here that mischaracterized data and clinical trials for the use of opioid drugs. And so we did you know, we did play a role. I'm not saying that, you know, if that wasn't there, that be completely gone. But we played some role is my point, actually, I'd say some interesting I added, I had dinner about two, two and a half years ago with a guy he was his name is Richard Morgan. He was actually on Dr. Oz, and he was a physician, very well respected, who actually ended up selling opioids, in conjunction with one of the big pharma companies, they used him. And he was like, involved with kickbacks, and he ended up going to jail. And after, you know, serving 10 years came out, he reformed now he's a professor at a at a medical school. But my point is that he was telling me that the companies are coming in, they're very aggressively pushing these opioid products. I mean, it was firsthand he was he was involved in it. And and, you know, which is one of the reasons why he really supports what we're trying to do, because he saw the industry's role firsthand. You know what I mean?

Darshan

I do. So let's take a step back. We speak. We've been speaking about the role of MSL and trust and a lot of these issues sort of, of where we are right now. We've also briefly touched on this concept of where are we going as an industry in the context of certifications in the context of Is there a need for for licensing, and that may not be necessary. And but let's take a step back, which is going back to a comment you made, which is the talked about a how pharmacy schools don't prep students for that pathway. And and my question to you is, number one, basically conversations why is that because I went through pharmacy school, I can tell you that what we were all prepped for, at least in my school, we were prepped and pushed towards hospital pharmacy. industry is bad. That is the dark side, don't go there. And you've heard that 1000 times from a lot of other people I imagine makes me smile. And the fact that you're nodding question to you is, how do you how do you tell people tell students coming out that there is great job satisfaction here, there is still a chance to make an impact on patient lives. There is there is a way to use the knowledge you've gained in a way that is productive and helpful. So how, what steps have you taken to have that happen?

William

Yeah. So what we do is we actually, I'm proud of a visit the CMA we actually serve as a rotation site for pharmacy students. So they actually do their industry rotations with us. We work with many of the different schools in the area here, ruckers, and fdu, and others. And that's one thing that we do, and they get a really great experience and learn about the industry. But we also give a lot of talks and seminars, career seminars, all over the country. We've done it last year, we did a whole bunch of pharmacy schools, we did a lot of PhD programs, medical schools focus, even going to harvard medical and Yale and a bunch it was a great experience. And it was a lot of fun. And people to your point weren't aware of what we were doing. We also support a scholarship at UIC College of Pharmacy in Chicago where there's an ACM a medical affairs scholarship. So every year the recipient gets $25,000 scholarship. And we give that to them to help support a career that they would want to pursue within the pharmaceutical industry. And that's something again, we're very, very proud of. And we also have the medical affairs scholarship program within the ACA. And so you can apply for a scholarship directly to the ACA and that scholarship will afford you the ability to gain access to, you know, any of the programs that we offer. One of the best stories that we had was a woman who was from Kazakhstan. She was from Kazakhstan. She was a A woman that was working in the industry had just began, really wanted to upskill herself because she didn't have that opportunity in Kazakhstan. She found us through a colleague who she knew in Russia reached out she was making $200 a month. And it was a great story. I always remember that story. And she, you know, she applied for the scholarship, we gave it to her. And then she reached out to us, you know, about two years ago and said, You this really made a difference. And she ended up moving to another part of Europe, and she's doing great now. But those are always stories that resonate with me and ways that we try to help people that are coming out or people that maybe are in lower socio economic situations. Just out of curiosity

Darshan

in this specific mind, we don't want to identify her for GDPR reasons, obviously. But ignoring that this woman was she already a MSL where she was or was she considering becoming an MSL,

William

she was just starting out in the industry. So she was internal within medical, but like I, you know, I think it was like a medical manager or something like that. And she was interested in being an MSL or just upscaling herself, because she hadn't really had, because you have to remember something in many of these other countries, there's not a lot of options to them, that are available that that gives them the options to upskill and broaden their skill set. And we've seen a huge increase in the last few years in Singapore and the UAE and India, India is a big one. In China, in, in several parts of Europe, where people are really, there's just a big demand for this type of work. And it's great. It's great to be able to work in these countries.

Darshan

So are you are you doing work internationally? Are you sort of spreading the word off being an MSL internationally?

William

We are we are so like I mentioned we have there's folks that are board certified by us in 75 countries. So yeah, it's pretty cool. If you were to tell me that a few years ago, I never would have believed that would have happened. But yeah, so it's all over the world. This is global.

Darshan

Okay, so what I'm hearing then is that you are making the, the fundamental problem I'm hearing you identify, for lack of a better term is lack of awareness of the potential and the work that msos do. And you've tried to address that in a variety of different ways. Whether you're talking at the, at the pharmacy, student level, where you're talking about becoming a rotation site, you're talking about be doing seminars, and scholarships, and all that good stuff. But you're also doing that, at the congressional level where you're talking to lawmakers, and you're talking to, for example, and we literally have run out of time already. But I wanted to get into this. You're talking next week at the US Attorney General's Alliance meeting, where you're going to be talking to them about exactly these issues as well. Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say is awareness is a key component of how you're trying to address this, this lack of information about what Ms. cells do? Yeah. And you're hoping that that addresses the issues of trust, that are deep within society?

William

I do I think, I think it can certainly help. And I think if people are listening, we're in medical affairs and the MSL world. I don't think sometimes they're necessarily always aware of that outside perspective. You know, when I worked in pharma, you just kind of focus on your job and what you do, and you're seeing your Kay wells or whatever, you're not thinking about what's happening around you. But I would say if you really want to protect the integrity of your role, long term, you know, we've got to open our eyes and look around and say, Okay, what are what's going on? And where's the tide shifting to? And we have to, we have to step in, like I said, into the future, and realize that we need to have something that protects what we do. So I'm excited about what the future has to bring.

Darshan

It's funny you say that that was something that Christine put up, literally 20 minutes ago going step into the future. You both vibe at the same moment. Um, so so as you know, well, I usually aim for these to be about 15 to 20 minutes, just sort of get a general feel for the conversation. We're already have double that because you're just an incredible person to talk to why this

William

very nice of you.

Darshan

Thank you. Um, what what I'd like to do is ask you three questions. And and then we'll do a quick summary of where we are. So the first question for you, based on what we've talked about, what is one question you'd like to ask the audience?

William

I'd like to ask the audience have prior to this meeting, they realized what what some of these issues were around medical affairs and MSL, this was new to them.

Darshan

There you go. Very cool. Um, I knew of them so I usually try to answer the question as the first person. I was aware of these issues, but yes, this is I'd be curious of other people. Same question that people didn't know. Right? So definitely, definitely interested, please. Right. And by the way, well, how can people reach out to you if they have questions?

William

They can follow me on LinkedIn. You know, they can follow me on Instagram will underscore Solomon, they can email me at info at ACM. And for that org, you can reach us directly there at the company.

Darshan

Very, very cool. And my next two questions, what is the most memorable thing that happened to you in the last month?

William

In the last month? Well, I would say the most memorable thing was probably the interaction I had with that patient advocate. And really, just hearing her story about the situation was her son disease state and how medical can really help and you know, the impact that she thinks a CMA can have the information they give their doctor, that story really resonated with me, I really did.

Darshan

I'm gonna ask you to repeat it, because I think we actually discussed that story before we got online.

William

Yeah. Oh, did we Okay, so I was just gonna say that, you know, there was a patient advocate who was, you know, we were meeting with and was telling us that what we do at the CMA is so important, because she wants to, you know, make sure that a lot of times her physicians who don't always know what, how to treat a disease or don't have all his latest information, or relying on medical, so medical having the The, the, you know, the highest standards of knowledge, and that type of stuff, really could impact her and her son and the kind of the progression of disease that's just stuck with me.

Darshan

Very, very cool. And last question for you. What did you learn this week?

William

This week? Well, I would say, you know, the, probably the biggest thing I learned is that making sure that you take care of your health, this is kind of more of a personal thing, you know, is really is really important. Making sure that you stay up to date with your physician, just your own personal, it's critical. And I would say having having good family around that watches out for you and takes care of you. I think sometimes we under appreciate that. And I think today this week, I appreciate it.

Darshan

Very, very cool. I'm gonna do a quick summary of what we discussed. We landed up talking about how you've been meeting with patient advocates and you actually just discussed that. We talked a little bit about this concept of a minimal standard standard of excellence. We then talk about and this is something you said which I really liked the term msos are the face of the industry which I think is really interesting very exciting. Because because there's so many faces and and in the end healthcare practitioners are seeing MSL there seems reps and those those are your faces. The goal of MSL, as you pointed out is to educate the community on the disease, state health community development of new data and how to use it. You pointed out this really interesting statistic which I did not know about, which was the growth the last 10 years has been about 300% and that's not just in the US it's globally if I understand correctly,

William

it's global. Yeah. Yeah.

Darshan

You did talk about how MSL is a different from sales reps in that there there could be a potential conflict of interest in the case of sales reps but you don't really have in the case of MSL is mostly because they're required by law to actually not be not be biased if you will. That's the entire point. You we then spoke a little bit about just how you address the issues of trust and the gap and trust between healthcare practitioners and MSL as an industry and the types of standards that probably should be in place we then went into you made a really interesting comment which again I'd never heard before, which was the average read time can is usually between one to two minutes yes it average MSL or a medical director times about 45 minutes. So it's night and day, if you will. It really concerns me if your average rep time is one to two minutes because that means that that's what half half the people are getting less than that, which means that I don't know how you do anything in 30 seconds. Yeah, so crazy. That's crazy to me. Um, we then spoke a little bit about how a CMA is actually going in and impacting pharmacy spread themselves and spreading the word and he talked a little bit about being a rotation site, doing talks and seminars, having a scholarship and having the actual acgme Medical affairs scholarship is separate as well. And you throw out another interesting number I've always heard that the maximum number of MSL is are far are pharmacists, which I think is interesting but but what you what you did is Add last piece which is and these tend to be about 40% of the people get more board certified. Yep. Which I think is awesome. Um, Did I miss anything? No, you got it. Perfect. Again if you have any questions feel free to reach out to will. He can be reached out again we'll wait where can they find you?

William

A medical affairs specialist at org you can go to our website or you could find me on LinkedIn, William Solomon.

Darshan

Perfect. And if you like this podcast, please like leave a comment. Please subscribe. You can find me on Twitter DarshanTalks.com. Sorry. On Twitter DarshanTalks on our website at DarshanTalks calm. Thanks again. Well, I appreciate it.

William

This is the DarshanTalks podcast, regulatory guy, irregular podcast with hosts Dr. Shaun Kulkarni. You can find the show on twitter at DarshanTalks or the show's website at DarshanTalks.com

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